CHW Live / Archive / February 5, 2025

February 5, 2025

Archived

City Council — February 2025

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Toronto Council meets today! It's the Annual Pre-Budget Mini-Meeting, or APBMM. A limited agenda, with items from just a couple of committees. Still lots to talk about: denser avenues, old city hall, stormwater. I'll tell you what happens. Meeting stream is here: www.youtube.com/live/7Qtllze...

02:24 p.m.7494

Mayor Chow has set an item about creating a "Buy Local, Buy Canadian" campaign as the first order of business, so take THAT, America. An item about legalizing sixplexes in Ward 23 will be up second. I've got a preview of the agenda in my newsletter: toronto.cityhallwatcher.com/p/a-conventi...

02:28 p.m.1612

Mayor Chow points to a report on the agenda about the unfunded Waterfront East LRT. She says the recent fed/prov investment in waterfront development was great, but "without proper transit, the traffic situation in the area will be in total chaos."

02:57 p.m.1621

Council votes 17-7 to combine three housing-related items to set the stage for one singular Voltron-like housing debate: the avenues policy review, legalizing sixplexes in Ward 23, and an update on the multi-unit residential acquisition (MURA) program.

03:08 p.m.1532

Council votes via show of hands to APPROVE the designation of Kensington Market as a Heritage Conservation District. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

03:15 p.m.1522

Councillor James Pasternak's motion to remove 1220 Wilson Ave as a shelter site FAILS to get the two-thirds support it needs. Vote was 10-16. (Bravo also a no.) secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

03:22 p.m.1721

Councillor Chris Moise withdraws his motion to replace the Moss Park Arena Board with a new slate of appointees. The current board stands. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

03:27 p.m.81

There are now 34 items left on the agenda. Our first item: Buying Local and Buying Canadian, via creating a campaign urging residents and businesses to avoid U.S. goods where possible. They will also vote on whether to oppose becoming the 51st state. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

03:35 p.m.1014

On questioning from Councillor Perruzza, the City Manager says less than 10% of the city's procurement goes to U.S. companies. City is working on putting an exact figure on it and finding ways to reduce that amount.

03:38 p.m.1341

"Toronto has always been a beacon of hope, so there's no doubt that we will declare our sovereignty and that we are not for sale, and we are not interested in joining the United States," says Mayor Olivia Chow, calling Trump's tariffs a "senseless economic attack."

03:47 p.m.1632

Wonder if we'll get a motion in this debate to have the City Clerk ditch Twitter and get a BlueSky account for meeting notices and updates.

03:50 p.m.7758

Councillor Stephen Holyday says he'll be supporting both the Buy Canadian motion and the motion to oppose becoming the 51st state. He says he's even ready to support putting more resources toward the economic development department.

03:57 p.m.1023

"Let's be reminded of what our Canadian flag represents. It's a symbol of our nation, our people's resolve, our pride, strength and honour — and yes, I spell honour with a 'u'," says Councillor Vince Crisanti, delivering his version of that old 'I am Canadian' beer ad. Throwback.

04:00 p.m.1211

Deputy Mayor Malik moves to have staff speed up creating a local procurement strategy as part of the city's economic development plan.

04:09 p.m.911

Councillor Perruzza moves to request the federal government put a "standard recognizable label" on all Canadian goods, making it easier to tell whether a product is Canadian-made. He also calls Trump a "nutty character."

04:19 p.m.132

Councillor Michael Thompson points out the people in this chamber have "zero control" over this. "We have no ability to effect. We may offer suggestions, however those suggestions may not be taken."

04:30 p.m.81

Thompson brings up the PayIt deal as an example of Council picking a U.S. company over local options. "We had all these Canadian companies coming in and saying, 'hey we can provide that technology.' Did we actually buy it? No, we didn't. Did we get screwed by it? Yes we did."

04:33 p.m.1511

Time to vote. Deputy Mayor Malik's motion to speed up development of a local procurement plan under the Economic Development Strategy CARRIES 26-0.

04:40 p.m.1621

Perruzza's motion to request the federal government put labels on products so we know if they're Canadian-made CARRIES 26-0.

04:41 p.m.1743

Council votes to ENDORSE the "Buy Local, Buy Canadian" campaign, 26-0.

04:42 p.m.2631

Toronto Council votes to OPPOSE Canada becoming the 51st state, 26-0.

04:43 p.m.892910

Up now: a report on the future uses of Old City Hall. Staff don't have much progress to report, as plans to refurbish the building and potentially use it as a City museum and library are challenged by the simple matter of having no money. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

04:46 p.m.1012

Councillor Stephen Holyday asks, if the city were to offer Old City Hall for lease for a single dollar, would anyone take it? "We haven't contemplated that specific scenario at this point," says staffer.

04:49 p.m.72

Staff confirm Old City Hall will be totally vacant as of May 1 as the courts move over to St. Lawrence North, but there's still some maintenance money in the city budget to — hopefully — make sure the building doesn't totally fall apart during its period of disuse.

04:55 p.m.1113

Mayor Olivia Chow announces the CEO of the Chinese Cultural Centre Alan Lam is here today. He's brought some gifts to celebrate the new year — a set of teacups for every member of Council. He'll be presenting them during the lunch break.

05:05 p.m.61

Councillor Paula Fletcher questions staff on the wisdom of potentially moving the city hall library branch over to old city hall. She says the current library was a "built-in" part of the city hall design, and says that people who work at city hall like having a library on-site.

05:14 p.m.42

Councillor Holyday laments that he did not bring his DVD copy of "The Money Pit" today, because Old City Hall is "destined to likely to be the most expensive space in our portfolio." He says the building should have a "productive use" or it should be transferred to someone else.

05:16 p.m.51

"Please, take a page out of the story of Jack & The Beanstalk. Do not buy magic beans. Do not put in a use that is not productive," says Holyday. It's been a while since I read that story. Does it end with Jack repurposing a heritage building?

05:18 p.m.2312

With that, Council breaks for lunch. Back at 2 p.m. to finish off the Old City Hall debate and deal with the conjoined housing debate. There are 27 items left on the agenda.

05:22 p.m.611

We're back. Mayor Chow rises to wish Happy Birthday to Councillors Nunziata, Colle and Ainslie. Councillor Fletcher is asked to sing Happy Birthday, but she's drowned out by a visiting class of Grade 5 & 6 students from Ogden Junior Public School who sing the heck out of it.

07:22 p.m.161

Councillor Perks says he's pre-circulated a motion on the Avenues Policy Review. You can read it here. If you fashion yourself an Avenues expert, let me know what you think. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

07:28 p.m.513

Back to the Old City Hall debate. Councillor Matlow, pointing out the notion of a Museum of Toronto goes back decades, says, "I think that the city has dropped the ball" on this project. "I don't believe this project has been prioritized the way council asked it to be."

07:31 p.m.1021

Matlow says he's worried that Old City Hall could be "lost" if City doesn't take urgent action. "Toronto has already had a shameful history at losing some of the great masterpieces of architecture that we should have valued and maintained over the years."

07:33 p.m.1411

Councillor Kandavel moves to add Scarborough's Albert Campbell Square to the list of civic assets the City should look at funding via the Canadian Infrastructure Bank.

07:35 p.m.41

"We all know that the price tag for refurbishing and rehabilitating Old City Hall is going to come in at a kazillion dollars," says Councillor Anthony Perruzza. "And we know that a kazillion dollars is going to be wishful thinking."

07:48 p.m.43

"We have to do the groundwork and be willing to say to the philanthropic community, "It's time to recognize you're part of a big city," says Councillor Shelley Carroll. "You don't get a Carnegie Hall — from a Carnegie — if, as a city hall, you're saying, 'oh, we can't do anything!'"

07:53 p.m.911

Council votes to ADOPT the report on Old City Hall via show of hands. Another report on potential uses of Old City Hall, including a museum, is due in Q2 2026. (Kandavel's motion carried too.)

07:55 p.m.61

It's now time for the three-headed housing debate, as Council will simultaneously discuss reports about increasing density along avenues, legalizing sixplexes in Ward 23, and the multi-unit residential acquisition program.

07:58 p.m.41

Councillor Dianne Saxe asks staff about Melissa Goldstein's letter criticizing the lack of public info available about the MURA program. Staff say they've now updated the website with a list of funding recipients. www.toronto.ca/community-pe...

08:04 p.m.611

On questioning from Councillor Jamaal Myers, the local councillor, staff confirm that the only change proposed for Ward 23 is that buildings that previously have been capped at a max of four units will now allow for six. The allowed size of the buildings will not change.

08:08 p.m.61

"What on earth did we agree to?" Councillor Stephen Holyday asks staff of the federal Housing Acceleration Fund. Staff explain the Housing Acceleration Fund is about accelerating the construction of housing. Staff says $353 million of federal funds are at risk if city doesn't make changes like this.

08:17 p.m.812

Councillor Mantas wants to know how many parking spaces would be required for a sixplex in Ward 23. Staff say there are no longer any minimum parking requirements. It would be up to owner of the site to determine. Mantas isn't happy about this. He says one sixplex could add up to 20 vehicles. (?!)

08:22 p.m.96

Councillor Cheng says she recently had a consultation about a development where an 11-year-old showed up to oppose an 11-storey building "in her backyard." She's wondering if planning staff have heard any similar feedback to this Avenues Policy proposal. Staff say they've got a range of feedback.

08:31 p.m.41

"But nothing you can do is going to actually make them feel like there's not hundreds of eyes that can look into their backyard. There's nothing in this policy that could actually restore the privacy once it's been taken by the building in the backyard," says Councillor Lily Cheng.

08:33 p.m.42

A bunch of councillors seem to have regrets about the 2022 decision to nix parking minimums. I wonder if the policy change would still pass if it came to council today.

08:36 p.m.82

Councillor Josh Matlow wants to make sure city planning will "enshrine a commitment to doing genuine and purposeful consultation with any organization, any neighbourhood, any group that needs to be part of this conversation" in next phase. Planning staff say that consultation is always the goal.

08:40 p.m.61

Planning staff said they held over 27 consultation meetings on their updates to the Avenues Policy. Still, the general vibe in the room from councillors is that there wasn't enough consultation.

08:48 p.m.82

Kandavel asks if planning staff have considered the impacts of shadows from allowing sixplexes in Ward 23. Staff reiterate that there are no changes to the allowed size of buildings, so the amount of shadows will not increase. Also three-storey buildings generally don't cast a lot of shadows.

08:51 p.m.1812

Perks formally moves his pre-circulated motion on the Avenues Policy. You can read the whole thing here. He says his motion makes it clear the city is doing this in response to Housing Acceleration Fund requirements and puts some guardrails on next phases of work. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

08:58 p.m.91

On making these kinds of changes to the official plan and allowed density, Councillor Gord Perks says, "Some people in the City of Toronto are nervous about it, and they want us to just stop. But I want to remind you: the consequences of just stopping are unacceptable."

09:00 p.m.2921

Urging council to adopt the updated Avenues Policy, Councillor Gord Perks says, "We must do it if we want the City of Toronto to continue to grow and thrive, and be a place where people from every income group, every walk of life, every part of the world, can live, work and play."

09:02 p.m.2111

Councillor Holyday waves around a map of the updated Avenues. He points to one and asks Perks, "What avenue is THAT?!" Perks brushes off Holyday's attempt at an Ace Attorney moment.

09:04 p.m.131

Perks blasts Holyday. "I appreciate the satisfaction you must take in voting 'no' to most things that we bring here to council. But I have a different duty. I look at the consequences of voting 'yes' and the consequences of 'no', and I make a decision about which one is in the public interest."

09:06 p.m.5382

Councillor Holyday has four motions. That's a lot of motions. 1. Refer whole thing back to staff for more consultation. 2. Delete the updated Avenues Policy Map. 3. Delete permission for taller buildings near transit stations. 4. Do even more consultation.

09:12 p.m.52

Again brandishing the proposed updated map of avenues, Holyday calls it an "affront to democracy." He says it's ridiculous that Kipling Avenue would ever be designated as an avenue.

09:14 p.m.92

"The citizens certainly have spoken in this city," Holyday says of his opposition to allowing more dense housing on avenues. He predicts another major wave of opposition if the planning department ever tries to allow sixplexes city-wide.

09:16 p.m.62

For the record, here's the map with the proposed new Avenues where more dense housing types (like mid-rise) would ultimately be permitted.

09:19 p.m.2111

Perks points out basically everyone lives within a reasonable distance of an Avenue, so Holyday's motion would effectively require everybody to be sent a copy of the proposed zoning map Holyday says he thinks it's important to let people know "there could be mid-rise buildings coming next to them!"

09:23 p.m.121

Chow says this Avenues Policy debate has been going on for decades. "The number of reports that have been written is enough to probably fill all the desks along here!" she says. "How much longer do we need to keep delaying, and delaying and deferring? ... No more delays. It's enough already."

09:26 p.m.411

Holyday's motion to refer the updated Avenues Policy back to staff for more consultation FAILS 7-16.

09:29 p.m.222

Councillor Myers moves to have staff report on the number of units and number of bedrooms in building permits received for sixplexes in his ward.

09:32 p.m.61

"I have never been more disappointed in the quality of a report coming to council than I am in this one," says Councillor McKelvie. She says staff have "failed to communicate in a way that's understandable," and she disagrees with the proposed avenues in her ward. She'll be voting against.

09:40 p.m.32

"I think we need to dig deeper about how we're going to solve the housing crisis. And I'm not convinced that upzoning and as-of-right is how we're going to get there," says McKelvie, pointing to 180,000+ approved units in the city that aren't being built.

09:42 p.m.22

"I am sad to say that I am going to ask for a recorded vote on Recommendation 1, and for the first time, I am going to have to vote no on housing. Very disappointed," concludes Councillor McKelvie.

09:44 p.m.41

Councillor Chernos Lin moves to add consideration of traffic impacts to next phase of the Avenues Policy update.

09:45 p.m.31

Matlow points out if Holyday gets his way and council rejects this change, it could take another 8% property tax increase to replace the lost federal funds and pay for the things that council has committed to. "That's not responsible governance."

09:58 p.m.2621

"Do residents' voices matter anymore?" wonders Councillor Lily Cheng. "I fear that we are building a dystopian future." She says the city is building housing without infrastructure like community centres and libraries. "We do not have any tools to get us to a livable future at this point."

10:06 p.m.125

"We are the loneliest city in Canada. Why is that? Well, what kind of city will it be when most of our development in our major corridors is 50-storey towers where people don't know their neighbours?" says Councillor Lily Cheng.

10:08 p.m.57

Councillor Kandavel moves for staff to report on impacts from shadows and any change in land values related to the sixplex pilot project in Ward 23.

10:11 p.m.31

Councillor Mike Colle takes an opportunity to rail against the Ontario Land Tribunal, calling it a 'secret, Kremlin-like body." "I know a few of them, and they're not bad people, but they're basically former bag men of Ford or whatever it is"

10:18 p.m.81

Time to vote, finally. All amendments carry on the report on a pilot to allow sixplexes in Ward 23 - Scarborough North. Item as amended CARRIES 18-5.

10:34 p.m.171

Holyday's motion to delete the proposed map of new avenues and stick with the current map FAILS 7-16.

10:36 p.m.171

Holyday's motion to NOT allow taller buildings near transit stations FAILS 6-17.

10:37 p.m.251

Perks' motion on the New Avenues Policy is APPROVED 16-8.

10:41 p.m.1811

Holyday's motion to do extra consultation on the next phase of the Avenues Policy, including potentially sending a zoning map to every household in the city, FAILS 11-13. Close one!

10:43 p.m.221

And because Perks' motion basically replaced the report recommendations, the updated Avenues Policy was effectively APPROVED by the adoption of that motion. The debate is over.

10:44 p.m.3941

There are 13 lucky items left on the agenda. Mayor Olivia Chow suggests Council break for 30 minutes at 6:30, then come back and finish the rest of the agenda. Strap in.

10:51 p.m.41

Up now: Councillor Chris Moise wants to make some changes to the rules governing the Moss Park Arena Board. The Board doesn't like the idea, saying they're being unfairly singled out. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

10:53 p.m.61

After councillors Holyday and Burnside defend the oversight of the Moss Park Arena Board, Councillor Moise argues the arena has mold, leaky washrooms, and an emergency exit blocked by a hockey stick. He's brought photos.

11:24 p.m.521

Voting on the arena board will have to wait. Council breaks for a 30-minute dinner break. Back at 7 p.m. to finish things off.

11:29 p.m.41

Council has returned, and is quickly dispensing with a bunch of items. The Waterfront LRT and Eglinton East LRT items are APPROVED with amendments from TTC Chair Councillor Jamaal Myers making it clear both projects are priorities for available federal transit funding.

12:14 a.m.911

Time to vote on this Moss Park Arena matter. Moise's motion to apply new governance rules and requirements to the arena board CARRIES 13-5.

12:29 a.m.31

Up now: a secondary plan for the "Golden Mile" in Scarborough. Councillor Kandavel is concerned that the proposed O'Connor Drive layout doesn't have enough lanes for cars — he's got a motion to review whether four lanes are needed. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

12:38 a.m.211

Kandavel's motion to review whether the extended O'Connor Drive in the Golden Mile plan needs a couple of extra lanes for cars CARRIES 15-5.

12:55 a.m.31

Kandavel then proceeds to vote against the EA Plan for the Golden Mile. But it still CARRIES 17-3.

12:58 a.m.713

Up now: stormwater. Some advocates had hoped the city would be ready to implement a stormwater charge on properties with large impermeable surfaces, but staff are instead recommending an incentive program for green infrastructure. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

01:02 a.m.71

Councillor Stephen Holyday has a motion to have the water department conduct more frequent inspections and maintenance in areas of the city where their data shows a repeated history of flooding,

01:14 a.m.41

Here's the full text of Holyday's motion. Councillor Gord Perks doesn't like the way it's written. "Do you really think it's fair to ask me to understand a 161-word sentence, in the 11th hour of a council meeting? It's one sentence! Learn to use a period," he tells Holyday.

01:18 a.m.192

Councillor Chernos Lin has a motion for a report on incorporating stormwater concerns into the minor variance process.

01:20 a.m.41

Both motions on the stormwater item CARRY via show of hands. So does the item as amended. Moving on.

01:21 a.m.41

Up now: an item about establishing a Program Advisory Body to look at ways to give Toronto more autonomy. Holyday moves to have the advisory body also look at de-amalgamation.

01:23 a.m.82

Councillor Josh Matlow, who put this item on the agenda, says he won't support Holyday's motion. "Being distracted and sidelined into other conversations like de-amalgamation or devolution ... if we talk about everything at every meeting, we're going to get nothing done." Wants to keep focused.

01:37 a.m.151

Mayor Olivia Chow thanks Matlow for bringing the Charter City issue to Council. "The way we are governed, it's not the most effective way. It's very, very old ... we absolutely have to modernize ourselves. If not, we are going to be left behind." "This is a long overdue conversation," she says.

01:43 a.m.1841

Chow says she can't support Holyday's motion, saying the Charter City Toronto group has done a ton of research into their request, while Holyday's motion is too much of a fly-by-night addition. "If you're interested, do the research first, then we can talk more about it," she says.

01:45 a.m.111

Councillor Holyday's motion to have the program advisory body on Toronto autonomy also consider de-amalgamation FAILS 1-19.

01:57 a.m.111

And the Toronto autonomy item CARRIES 18-2. Toronto will establish a Program Advisory Body on ways to get Toronto more local power.

01:59 a.m.181

Up now: a report on potentially requiring new condos to offer visitor parking spaces. Councillor Lily Cheng, a big supporter of visitor parking, has a couple of motions. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

02:06 a.m.511

Both of Cheng's visitor parking motions CARRY via show of hands. As does the item as amended. A report on a visitor parking bylaw forthcoming in Q4.

02:11 a.m.41

Up now: a report on supportive housing. Councillor Stephen Holyday moves to change things up so that staff are required to consult with the public prior to purchasing a new supportive housing site. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

02:20 a.m.211

"There are certain kinds of debate where I have to mentally count to ten before I say anything. Because they make me so angry. And this is one of them," says Perks. He says Holyday is trying to stop housing projects in his ward. "He is asking you to vote to violate human rights."

02:22 a.m.1112

Holyday's motion to hold public consultations on supportive housing sites prior to finalizing the purchase of the site FAILS 4-14.

02:24 a.m.71

The supportive housing item CARRIES 17-1.

02:26 a.m.81

The last item is Councillor Lily Cheng's motion to amplify the need for Toronto to get a new fiscal framework. Holyday just wants to vote against it. He does. But it doesn't matter. The item CARRIES 17-1. secure.toronto.ca/council/agen...

02:28 a.m.715

And that'll do it. Finally. Council's mini-meeting wasn't very mini, wrapping up at 9:29 p.m. after a long day. If you liked this thread, consider saying thanks with a subscription to City Hall Watcher, my newsletter about all this jazz. It keeps me going. toronto.cityhallwatcher.com/subscribe

02:30 a.m.2311