City Council — October 2013
October 8–11, 2013
194 posts
Tuned into the #tocouncil meeting this morning but pretty sure Rogers TV accidentally aired a rerun.
Minnan-Wong is very concerned that this Scarborough subway will go over budget. City Manager says overruns would require more taxes.
Minnan-Wong also asks about subway operating costs. Capital maintenance is $35-40m per year. No estimates on costs for service.
Pennachetti says Metrolinx might pay for some of the maintenance costs associated with the subway, even though they said they wouldn't.
"What was the overrun for SKYDOME?" Mike Layton asks, with a small smile.
Now David Shiner is asking about the subway tax increase -- what if we applied it evenly to business and residential classes? (ALARM BELLS)
Councillor Mammoliti is up to question staff. Hold on to your hats.
Mammoliti asks about partners who might provide subway money, so as to avoid tax increases. He says "public-private partnership type thing."
"You're not going to go on a public piece of infrastructure of this scale without a tax increase," says City CFO. Mammoliti still wants P3s.
Now budget chief Di Giorgio asks about the tax increases. The City CFO makes a "slicing the cat" analogy, which draws horrified groans.
Byford acknowledges the TTC is confident in their subway costs numbers only to within a 30% swing, which works out to $500m or so.
Now on to speeches. Deputy Mayor Kelly will speak first.
Kelly moves that council adopt the subway option as laid out in the city manager's report.
Kelly says the SRT was a "light rail transit" which was imposed on Scarborough. "It was positioned in such a seductive way," he says.
Kelly says he visited to Madrid to check out their subway system. He does not say whether he also checked out their economic crisis.
"What size tax increase are you supporting?" asks Vaughan to the deputy mayor. "Come on, say it," he prods. Kelly won't say the number.
"I want to hear from you what size tax increase you're supporting," says Vaughan. Nunziata lets Kelly off the hook.
"The challenges that face this city are many," says Kelly. Davis asks if he'd support taxes to pay for other capital needs. Kelly demurs.
Matlow points out Kelly voted against using prop taxes to fund transit construction back in May. (Everyone did except Moeser & Di Giorgio.)
Councillor Ainslie moves to support LRT! Game-changer.
.@cllrainslie is probably at least partially motivated by his quest to lower his Ford Nation percentage to @gordperks levels.
Mayor Ford is up to question LRT-supporting Ainslie. "You're planning to run in the next election?" mayor asks.
Ainslie says people in his ward want to get around, especially those who can't afford a car. LRT more "fiscally prudent," he says.
"Is it because [the subway] doesn't go through your ward?" asks the mayor to Ainslie.
Ford again says the property tax increase on the table is only "a quarter of one percent", which is not true.
Wong-Tam raises to question Ainslie. "Councillor Ainslie, where are you getting your political courage?" Applause.
Wong-Tam question to Ainslie: "Why are you not pandering to Scarborough voters?" These two make a great team.
As Ainslie answers questions from his colleagues, Doug Ford sits beside him, stone faced.
Councillor Ford questions LRT-supporting Ainslie. "I just want to clarify - you're a Scarborough councillor, and the vast majority of..."
Doug Ford says LRT will "rip up the roads and create traffic congestion out in Scarborough."
Both Ford brothers now have given strong indication that they're very worried about what AInslie's LRT support might mean.
"It's clear 75% of the people want subways!" Doug Ford bellows, even though his mic has been turned off. Nunziata calls recess.
My unofficial prediction is at 25-19 for subways, by the way. Need clarity from Coun. McMahon, Coun. Bailão still.
If council does end up backing LRT, I'd like to see a motion requesting the feds direct their $660m toward other priority transit projects.
And recess is over. No reports as to whether councillors spent the time playing freeze tag or four square.
Del Grande asks questions to Ainslie: why are you supporting LRT now when you also supported the new streetcar purchase a few years ago?
Ainslie indicates that Ford-supporting councillors were handed talking points during break, which apparently refer to streetcar purchase.
Mammoliti rises to question Ainslie. Mammoliti says a report is coming that will show the Finch LRT will "create havoc."
Mammoliti says the Finch LRT will delay traffic. "I'm guessing that an LRT in Scarborough will do the same thing," Mammoliti says. It won't.
"I don't know if you're very familiar with this route," Ainslie says to Mammoliti cheerfully. It's an understatement.
Now Councillor Pasternak is asking questions of Ainslie. He makes a ridiculous point about a commuter riding transit in circles.
Why exactly a commuter would go from Yonge & Bloor to Sheppard & Yonge via subway -> LRT -> LRT -> subway is beyond me. But Pasternak.
I'd suspect Di Giorgio will move either Ford's 0.25% tax increase, or to refer tax increase to budget committee. (If that's even possible.)
Raymond Cho, born again subway advocate, asks Ainslie what happens if the LRT reaches capacity and then we have to build a subway later.
Coun. Crawford is a strong subway supporter. He asks Ainslie to verify that subways go faster than LRT.
Fletcher says that the federal money is in fact TO's portion of the Building Canada fund, so it could go to other projects.
Councillor Thompson suggests that, like the SRT, that the LRT would have issues operating in snow and rain.
Councillor De Baeremaeker now moves that the decommissioned SRT route become a park like NYC's High Line.
Seems to me that "subway stations per former municipality" is a lousy way to plan a transit system. But, hey, here's Glenn De Baeremaeker.
De Baeremaeker suggests that the Scarborough LRT will be at capacity eight years after it opens. I don't know where that comes from.
Matlow asks De Baeremaeker if he knows the costs of the High Line park in NYC. De Baeremaeker says no. "But I have been to their website."
Candidate for 2013 #tocouncil MVP Josh Matlow speaking on the item now. He hits on the big issues: debt, taxes, grade separation, ridership.
Matlow: "I'm asking us to demonstrate leadership. I'm asking us to be fiscally responsible." And here's Karen Stintz, speaking next.
Stintz points out Scarborough subway has 27% more projected ridership than subway to Vaughan. She adds that she supports Vaughan extension.
Stintz says she was out with a friend at an Argos game and he said this Scarborough subway is important. Weird speech.
"The province is not building an LRT. They're not," says Stintz. Says Glen Murray will build subway on his alignment if council votes LRT.
Councillor Mihevc is up now. He's a critical vote.
Mihevc outlines the conditions council put on their subway decision in July. He points out that the "big one" has not been met.
Mihevc says the $910 million that the city is on the hook for is a "breaking of the deal." I'm putting him in the LRT column.
"I'm not convinced that this is how major transit decisions should be made," says Councillor Robinson, an LRT supporter and obvious-stater.
Di Giorgio moves a motion that changes the property tax phase in - 0.25%, 0.5%, 0.6%, 0.25%, 2014 through 2017.
Di Giorgio's motion allows Ford to say he only supported a 0.25% property tax increase while campaigning for reelection.
Carroll points out that city manager said earlier that changing the tax phase-in would require another report. Di Giorgio says that's wrong.
Mihevc asks Di Giorgio about backloading the tax increases. "Remember the streetcar purchase?" Di Giorgio says flippantly.
For those asking, here's my updated projection on the subways-versus-LRT thing. 23-21, but lots could change. https://fordfortoronto.mattelliott.ca/misc/projections/council%20sorecard%20-%20subway%20projection%20oct%208.pdf (pdf)
Whether Di Giorgio's motion has the votes to pass is very much in question. I'm not sure why Stintz et al. would support it.
Davis asks Di Giorgio to confirm he's cool with borrowing $1B and paying $40m per year to service the debt. Di Giorgio says yes
Davis asks Di Giorgio if he hasn't been concerned about city debt. Di Giorgio says yes. Davis then asks why he'd reject debt-free LRT.
"I just happen to believe in subways, and that's the way it is," says the budget chief, who is responsible for ten billion dollars.
Just when you think you're out.
RT @jm_mcgrath
Alright I hate you all, I've turned on the Toronto City Council feed.
I don't believe in subways, by the way. I think all subway footage was actually filmed in a soundstage. Look at the shadows.
"Do you believe that we should vote to increase taxes today to buy services in the future?" Perks asks the budget chief. Uncomfortable pause
Mammoliti asks how much density was along the Yonge line when it was built in '54. Di GIorgio says he lived in Hamilton at the time
Mammoliti is speaking about St. Clair now. He calls it a disaster, he says. Real original.
"Have you seen St. Clair and the backup on St. Clair when the cars are --" Deputy Speaker Parker cuts him off.
Councillor Pasternak has a motion. He wants to allow surplus dollars to go to paying off the Scarborough subway debt. Oh man.
Pasternak says every subway line we've built has produced revenue surpassing the capital cost. That's totally not true for Sheppard.
Del Grande is speaking now. He instructs Nunziata to stop his time whenever a colleague makes a point of privilege, anticipating outrage.
Again Del Grande brings up the streetcar purchase. I am not sure what the alternative was - CLRVs were falling apart.
Del Grande also brings up St. Clair, because why not.
Now Del Grande brings up the gas plants! He is going for full-card grumpy bingo.
Del Grande says Scarborough residents "freeze in the dark" without bus shelters, while downtown residents enjoy their lights.
Some of the pro-subway arguments have been weird. Like, "you lefties supported bad financial decisions in the past, so why not THIS ONE?"
Doug Ford is speaking now. "Well, folks, it really comes down to this: either you're planning for transportation for 30 years or..." Blah.
"There's billions of dollars worldwide to fund this, if we get a little creative," says Doug Ford. Says we don't need taxes.
You would think "number of subway stations per former municipality" would be a lousy metric for transit planning. But here's Doug Ford.
Ford talks about putting money into transit that lasts 100 years. If I'm riding a subway in 100 years and not a hoverboard, I'll be pissed.
If anything has a chance of swinging a pro-LRT vote at the last minute, it's a Doug Ford speech.
Pro-subway Councillor Cho is giving his speech now. I wonder if Adam Giambrone will run against him for MPP in Scarborough-Rouge River.
Councillor Crawford speaking now. Points out that some of his colleagues "almost bankrupted the city" last term.
Crawford wants to know what it will take to "get people out of their cars." He says subway will do it.
Mammoliti moves a motion requesting that staff use P3s to reduce the subway property tax increases. P3s, you remember, are magic.
I am a businessman. Here is my proposal: you give me money, I build a subway. Ergo vis a vis paradigm synergy value-added.
Have you looked at using lean six sigma blackbelt ninjas to build this subway? Hm. I thought not. Socialist.
Mammoliti says the 2010 election was all about subways. It's a common belief, but I've never bought it.
Vince Crisanti says this subway is about doing the right thing. "We already have buses. Buses are flexible and do a better job than LRTs."
Crisanti suggests, I think, that if Scarborough doesn't get a subway than North Etobicoke probably won't get a subway. He's weird.
Councillor Perks is speaking now. He decides to be an optimist, and points out that it's good every councillor is passionate about transit.
(I'm not sure I fully agree. Some seem less about building transit and more about ensuring any built transit doesn't take road space.)
Councillor Perks says people don't want "subways" as much as they want mobility and a transportation network.
Perks brings up @SwanBoatSteve. Says Steve keeps a copy of every report the TTC puts out. "He's odd that way."
Councillor McMahon speaking now. "I tried. I wanted the Scarborough subway to work. I honestly did." Sounds like she's flipping to LRT.
McMahon confirms that she will not be supporting the Scarborough subway, as council's conditions weren't met. Short and sweet.
McMahon's decision puts my projected vote at 23-20. Still have Bailão as undecided. Subway side better make sure no one wanders off.
Fletcher refers to news today that the fed money for the Scarborough subway would have come to the city for infrastructure projects anyway.
Updated subway-versus-LRT vote projection. 23-20, one undecided. Time running out. https://fordfortoronto.mattelliott.ca/misc/projections/council%20sorecard%20-%20subway%20projection%20oct%208.pdf (PDF)
"We want transit in Scarborough," says Vaughan. Says the question is how do we get the most transit to the most people.
Last speaker. Councillor Berardinetti. She quotes Oscar Wilde: "nowadays people know the price of everything and the value of nothing."
(That same quote was used in an awesome puppet deputation delivered by @DesmondCole a couple of years back.)
Berardinetti says the LRT will be nearly at capacity by 2031. Right.
Oh, whoops. Here's Councillor Palacio, who has added his name to the speakers list.
Palacio wonders what would have happened if they'd built LRTs on Yonge and Bloor. Yeah imagine if they had streetcar lines on those streets!
Palacio says he will not stop complaining about the St. Clair streetcar until they "right the wrongs." Tear it out?
And, finally, Councillor Bailão. This will be interesting, at least.
Bailão says she supports subways and LRTs and city needs both. But then she says she'll support the Scarborough subway. Ballgame.
Bailão's office will probably get a lot of email tomorrow.
Bailão again repeats that subways last 75-100 years. I still have no idea what this talking point means.
Like the Yonge subway line, at 60 years old, must literally be a ticking time bomb if the lifespan thing is true.
Bailão says the Scarborough subway will "expedite" the downtown relief line. Because money is infinite.
Updated projection with Bailão's vote confirmed. 24-20 for subways. I expect that to be final. https://fordfortoronto.mattelliott.ca/misc/projections/council%20sorecard%20-%20subway%20projection%20oct%208.pdf (PDF)
I am also hearing that Perruzza and Moeser are the best hopes for LRT, but both are huge longshots. Not enough time to convince them.
And now the real last speaker -- it's Rob Ford.
"We can build transit for Scarborough that will last the next 100 years," says the mayor. 100 years!
Ford thanks the feds and the province for kicking in the cash. Nunziata calls out Perks for interrupting. Ford goes on.
Ford says the feds and province "believe in this subway." Cites Harper, the Premier and the Minister of Transportation as believers.
"World class cities, friends -- world class cities -- have subways from one end to the other," says mayor.
"They're here. All three levels of government are at the table today. A lot of people say 'this is a dream, you're not going to get, Rob.'"
Ford: "Through perseverance, being consistent -- we can bring a Scarborough today -- today! -- to Scarborough."
Ford asks councillors to stay firm in how they voted in July re: subway v. LRT.
Ford: "Years ago, folks, Toronto's leaders first envisioned a subway network. And they were laughed out of the chamber." History?
Ford says these original subway champions were opposed by people who said subways are too expensive and wanted to stick with streetcars.
Ford: "Some people who oppose subways are going to talk, 'they're expensive!'" But that's what people want, he says.
Ford says we have to take on debt, increase dev charges and so on to build the subway. Nunziata cuts him off. The mayor is out of time.
And now: mayoral questions! Matlow: didn't you once say you could build the subways with the private sector paying for all of it?
Ford says he sees subway as investment. It'll create thousands of jobs and ease congestion. But Matlow presses: what about private sector?
Ford: "When it comes to debt, I inherited the debt - for the streetcars!"
And now the deputy mayor is asking questions of the mayor. Kelly asks if the mayor will finish his speech.
So Ford's finishing his speech. "The next campaign is going to be on subways - to connect Sheppard, and Finch." Promises more subway fights.
"You know, I've taken many many shots over the last three years," says Ford. No doubt. Then he makes some football analogies.
Palacio asks the mayor about St. Clair. Ford says city will get competitive bids. "I want to do an international search for subways."
An international search for subways.
And it's time for voting! Silver lining: maybe we'll never have to sit through a debate on this again!
First motion is Councillor Di Giorgio's motion making the tax increase 0.25% in 2014. It FAILS 21-23. Silver lining! http://t.co/Z9QhOq1FoQ
Next. Pasternak motion to use surplus policy to fund Scarborough subway. Fails 20-24.
Another Pasternak motion to use any savings on Eglinton LRT to fund Scarborough subway passes 28-16.
Mammoliti motion re: using P3s like subway-funding magic carries 29-15.
Kelly motion to endorse the Scarborough subway because people like subways passes 24-20. As expected. Subway wins.
And De Baeremaeker's motion re: making the SRT corridor into a High Line park passes too, for the hell of it.
Worth pausing to acknowledge @cllrainslie, who demonstrated a lot of courage today even if it wasn't enough to win.
Scrumming, Ford says he thinks he can get the property tax increase for 2014 back down to 0.25%.
Asked if @cllrainslie will still be on Ford's executive, Ford says he'll "comment on that later."
Rob Ford is speaking on the Sam's sign at #tocouncil. He's got a motion to put the sign back up on Yonge or Gould.
Some confusion now. Pam McConnell says sons of Sam Sniderman are not in favour of Ford's motion. Not sure what the issue is.
So Ford wants the sign back at Yonge or Gould. Wong-Tam wants to explore other locations nearby - one "culturally appropriate and relevant."
Matlow has moved receipt of the Sam's sign motion, which effective hits the reset button and forces Ryerson to make a new proposal re: sign.
Pam McConnell motion to refer the Sam's sign issue back to staff for further reports PASSES 24-18. So we'll get another go-round on this.
Huh. @shelleycarroll was made vice chair of the Economic Development Committee over council's lunch break. https://secure.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewPublishedReport.do?function=getMinutesReport&meetingId=8328
Council votes 37-6 to name something after Pierre Trudeau. Rob Ford and Doug Ford vote against.
Discussing development charges, @JoshMatlow admits that he doesn't know how they get the caramilk in the Caramilk bars. Ask the dolphins.
Mayor says @cllrainslie has resigned as Chair of the Parks Committee and is no longer on executive.
Ford is making his standard objections to councillors who overrule staff advice re: street naming and traffic calming.
It's a regular thing with Ford, though he generally has no problem ignoring advice from TTC and planning staff himself.
Councillor Cho has introduced a "very famous" movie star and singer from Korea. The movie star and singer is posing for a photo with Ford.
Here's what the picture looks like. It's a great hat. http://t.co/PJJTEGhYwQ
Mayor Ford is set to do an interview with CP24's Stephen LeDrew. LeDrew is known for his hardball questions and take-no-prisoners approach.
Ford is sharing his interview time with new councillor Peter Leon. "Peter Leon is well known for his community work," says Peter Leon.
Peter Leon says he's a conservative and confirms that he loves subways.
LeDrew congratulates Ford on getting subways. Ford says it's what the people want. "People don't want another St. Clair in this city."
Ford says the property tax increase he supported works out to about 0.5% over three years.
LeDrew asks Ford about the relief line. Ford says his priorities are the Sheppard extension and a Finch subway.
Of the DRL: "the downtown people have enough subways already," Ford says. He says city needs to be fair.
"I like Paul. He's a good guy. But I guess he's not on our team," says Ford of Ainslie.
Ford confirms that new councillor Peter Leon will be on his executive committee.
LeDrew asks Ford about the drug stuff. "I can't comment on that because it's before the courts," is all the mayor will say.
Someone ask Andy Byford whether new subways on Sheppard and Finch should take priority over the DRL. Watch his head explode.
Peter Leon announces his new council phone number live on CP24. Politicians are call centres.
LeDrew asks Ford the question all journalists have been dying to ask: what's with the cowboy boots? Follow-up: wasn't your Texas trip great?
LeDrew asks if Ford has succeeded in "stopping the gravy train." Ford says he has saved a billion dollars. He has not.
Ford says his reelection slogan will be "Ford more years." Says he has cut the unemployment rate down from 11% and avoided garbage strikes.
Ford rattles off his home phone number and tells residents to call anytime. "There you go," says LeDrew. "Democracy in action."
Now Councillor Filion is making a bid to put Adam Vaughan on Ford's executive committee. Would make the meetings more fun.
"I think the people of Toronto would love to see [Peter Leon] on executive," says Doug Ford. Then he takes shots at Matlow.
Now Councillor Leon stands and says he's humbled to be considered for executive. He says he'll give 101% — mathematically impossible.
First vote is whether to put Adam Vaughan on executive. It fails on a tie! 16-16.
Ford nemesis Adam Vaughan just came incredibly close to winning a spot on the executive committee.
But wait: will the motion to put Peter Leon on executive fail on a tie too? Stay tuned!
Motion to put Councillor Leon on executive PASSES 27-5. Peter Leon moves up in the world.
Here are the results of the tie vote to put Adam Vaughan on executive. Notably in favour: Stintz, Ainslie, Robinson. http://t.co/zefRtnhwBq
And that's the end of council's October meeting. Next go-round is on November 13.