City Council — February 2012
February 8, 2012
158 posts
Today's #TOCouncil meeting has yet to start and we already have a heckler. "When you gonna resign, Karen?" he yelled.
Council chamber is nearly at capacity. If you can't find a seat, I think there's also a Bid Committee meeting today. Could also be good.
Meeting kicks off. Cho has a petition signed by 999 supporting the light rail plan. Couldn't get one more signatory?
Now Carroll. She's got 1,643 signatures for the LRT plan. Colle's got 421. Thousands of people!
Also bearing signatures: Stintz & Doucette. Doucette's got more than 2,000 signatures.
These signatures don't stack up with things the mayor heard once while walking at a mall.
It looks like council will vote on endorsing Transit City, plus consideration of a grab bag of other projects.
And now Councillor Thompson. He's got an email petition from people seeking clarification. Amazing.
You know things are messed up when people sign a petition saying "we're confused!"
Okay, so what we'll get today: Finch LRT, Eglinton LRT, Scarborough LRT. Then we'll have a special meeting on Feb 21 to decide Sheppard.
Kicking things off: Mammoliti, asking questions to staff. Says he heard transit should go underground on Finch. No one knows who he's asking
Mammoliti sincerely believes that a private sector partner would totally jump at the chance to build a subway along Finch Ave.
"Have you considered a subway on Finch?" "Yes." "But have you considered a subway on Finch?"
Di Giorgio asks if maybe we can hedge our bets: do we *have* to decide if Eglinton East goes underground or at grade today?
And here's Crisanti, who's got a difficult choice to make today. Asks if a subway or LRT would move people faster on Finch.
A MagLev train would move people the fastest. Or some sort of pneumatic tube. People deserve pneumatic tubes.
Palacio brings up St. Clair, asks how much it went overbudget. Webster fires back saying the TTC portion of that project came in on budget.
Shelley Carroll asks where the 40-story buildings will go. Gotta have density to justify subways.
James Pasternak remains convinced that commuters want to travel in a 'continuous loop.'
Now asking questions: the ever-mysterious @JayeRobinson. She's got some technical questions about alignment east of Laird on Eglinton.
Webster: "It's more expensive to maintain a subway asset" over LRT. Let's hope that's the end of that talking point.
Unless I missed some subtext, Robinson's questions point to her still being a vote that could go either way.
Gary Webster says LRT plan is "better value for money." Definitive!
Augimeri: "The subway they're building in my ward now, is that the same subway I voted for in the 1980s?"
Webster points out the other thing: if we don't stick with LRT plan, we'll need more buses. Which in Ford-language means more service cuts.
Oh man. Here comes @PeterMilczyn with some giant binders.
.@toronto_life has got @SueAnnLevy scoring a Transit City BINGO with her column today. https://torontolife.com/daily/informer/streetcar-named-disaster/2012/02/08/sue-ann-levy-scores-a-bingo/
Left-wing councillors have been constructing arguments against deferring today's decision, which means there's a chance that'll happen.
Apparently the city paid $175K to KPMG for their Sheppard Subway report. That'd pay for food at council meetings for four years.
Josh Matlow asks Gary Webster if he'd support a subway in Sudbury or Kitchener. Comedy!
John Parker's in the chair as Nunziata slips out. Haven't seen the mayor since the anthem played.
Doug Holyday demonstrates a misunderstanding of induced demand. Says we'll need more road capacity to accommodate more cars.
Nunziata asks if this Stintz plan isn't, in reality, just Transit City. She says "David Miller" and "Adam Giambrone" as if they're bad words
"This is resurrecting Transit City," Nunziata says. She asks if it's true that Metrolinx supports underground along Eglinton.
Nunziata is trying to point out that the St. Clair ROW has held up ambulances and so people have died. Also we can't remove snow there.
"That it," says Nunziata. "I don't have any more questions." I HAVE SO MANY.
Councillor Kelly is up. He is convinced he knows a lot about this topic. He asks if we are building subways like Shanghai, etc.
And now we get some Doug Ford questions. "What do you consider rapid transit?" he asks. Webster says LRT is rapid.
Doug Ford goes back to the "operating costs" point. Webster has answered this question a half-dozen times this morning.
Doug Ford concludes, says Webster believes in "short-term band-aid solutions." He barrels on.
Doug Ford brings up the "St. Clair disaster." He has clearly not been listening to any other questioners this morning.
"I can't believe you would call St. Clair Ave a success," bellows Doug Ford. Says he heard from people while door knocking.
And we're done for lunch. Whew.
Real-people debate going on right in front of me: Person A says Scarborough deserves subways; Person B says not fair to deprive Finch.
.@gordperks tells me he's VERY close to winning Transit City opposition bingo based on this morning's arguments.
Transit argument ended with handshake and agreement to email each other with facts & figures. Good Toronto.
Rob Ford wants to speak! Here we go!
Rob Ford has a deferral motion. Asks that City Manager convene a panel to discuss Eglinton East.
Panel would include a 'neutral' leader, reps from Metrolinx, TTC, others.
Panel would report back within 30 days. Even though there is nothing we can learn in 30 days that we don't know.
Rob Ford says we don't have "reports" or "evidence to make decisions." Says we're just trying to decide who "sounds better."
Ford says people have already spoken "loud and clear." Refers to polls that say people don't want Transit City.
And there its: we don't want another St. Clair disaster.
Ford says traffic jams are frustrating. Explains why. Says it's because you want to get to places fast. Whoa, slow down, I don't follow.
"Let's listen to the taxpayers. Let's listen to what they said. I campaigned on subways. That's what we have to do."
Ford says "numbers are being pulled out of the air." Sure are.
"People in this city -- again -- want underground, reliable transit. That's as clear as the days are long."
Ford says "nothing is going to change within 30 days." Which is kind of the point.
"This is not the time to play politics," Ford says. Big audience laugh.
That Ford moved this deferral motion means he has to take questions on it.
Ford: "This is a vibrant prosperous city with subways." Refers to light rail plan as "Streetcar City." Creative!
Quorum move was strategic?
RT @JoshMatlow
First, they tried to break quorum. Now, a false compromise.
Ford asks why Metrolinx would stop building the subway they're working on at Black Creek. They never would.
As always, councillors decline to ask the mayor questions. But "I want questions," he says.
A 30-day pause to convene a panel will cost the city money it surely doesn't have.
The item that Ford wants to refer so we can put an "expert panel" together also proposes putting an "expert panel" together.
The argument seems to be that 30 little days never hurt anybody. Let's just wait.
Mihevc has a stack of @kett4l's post cards, and is displaying them on the big screen.
What we're looking for now is an indication that councillors like @JamesPasternak and @johnparker26 won't support Ford's referral motion.
Mendacity? I am not familiar with that transit plan.
Frances is threatening to recess for ten minutes due to some minor bursts of applause.
Karen Stintz is up now. No referral. Says this isn't a complicated argument -- it's a question of what you do with $8.4 billion.
Stintz says we're going to convene expert panel to look at Sheppard Subway because it was a campaign promise for mayor.
"There is nothing that's going to change in 30 days on Eglinton and Finch," says Stintz. Need to make decision now.
Thompson says he'll support referral. Says this is an example of the mayor being flexible and working with others.
This afternoon is a huge test of the resolve and calm the mayor developed during his campaign. Councillor Ford would be shouting.
Oh man. Doug Ford is back up. Insinuates that De Baeremaeker and Cho could lose next election due to their support for LRT.
Doug Ford says the 2010 election was the "largest referendum in Canadian history." Quebec doesn't count!
Ford says LRT will cause traffic congestion like we've never seen. Continues to repeat other made-up things that no one believes.
Parker is speaking now. This is critical.
Parker says he doesn't need the advice of an expert panel. Says Sheppard needs further debate, but Eglinton & Finch are set.
Indication from Parker and Pasternak that they won't support referral. Means Ford's motion will fail.
Kelly, who voted against a report that would provide information at last TTC meeting, supports the mayor's delay so he can get more info.
Di Giorgio says the Eglinton line will eventually go from Burlington to Oshawa. Then Sudbury! Then Kitchener!
Nunziata implies downtown councillors support light rail because "they already have a subway."
I think some councillors would be surprised to learn there are vast downtown neighbourhoods served primarily by mixed-traffic streetcars.
Nunziata, speaking in rousing tones, turns towards Paula Fletcher, who shifts back in her chair and plugs her ears.
Jaye Robinson rises to support referral. She is an enigma.
Shiner's boring amendment carries 23-20. Stintz voted yes. Mostly irrelevant. Here comes the big one.
Does not carry! 19-24!
That's the end. Just call the question. Get this vote done.
Here's the voting results for Ford's defeated referral motion. No surprises. http://twitpic.com/8hcydm
Stintz she doesn't want this to be the "Stintz plan." Wants this to be the "Council plan."
In scrum, Nunziata makes weird arguments about Transit City. Claims today's vote was personal.
Robinson says referral would have allowed more time. Says she hasn't had chance to speak to residents. (She had a year.)
Nunziata says province should listen to the people - who voted in the election. Not necessarily council.
Kristyn Wong-Tam uses the word "twibbon" on the floor of council. We've passed the brink.
Mammoliti has moved an amendment asking for a Finch subway. Amazing.
Mammoliti appeals to the province to ignore the will of council. He does so while standing on the floor of council.
Ohhh. Mammoliti says this is a Giambrone proposal. Then refers to leather couch.
Fragedakis analogies: if you've 4 children, and all of them need to get to school, would you give one a cadillac and the rest a skateboard?
I'm not a parent so I don't know. I'd probably just let them figure it out on their own. Small government parenting.
Doug Ford is speaking again! What a treat. Folks, he says, this is about two groups: short-term thinkers and long-term visionaries.
Doug says our choices are a "St. Clair Disaster" with expropriated businesses or, I guess, awesome subways that last forever.
Doug says the LRT plan represents a "two-tier system." Again, implies all downtowners enjoy great subway access. I wish!
Doug Ford criticizes Gloria Lindsay Luby for not living in her ward. Because *he* lives in her ward.
Doug Ford says he's got a message for Dalton McGuinty: listen to people in Scarborough & Etobicoke! Don't listen to council!
.@CllrCrawford again pretends that the SRT is the same as LRT. It's totally not.
Peter Milczyn, contrary to some other Ford allies, seems ready to accept council's decision. Even if he doesn't agree with it.
Milczyn points out that, if we had build Eglinton subway fifteen years ago, we wouldn't be having this debate. True, but Eg would be a stub.
.@mary_margaret32 says she's "dreaming of a downtown relief line." I'd go to the ends of the earth to support that one.
Shut up, silent majority! I am trying to focus.
RT @jm_mcgrath
Palacio: "The silent majority has spoken" Uh, now I'm confused.
Nunziata says everyone agrees the St. Clair ROW was a 'write-off' and a 'waste of money.' Everyone?!
Nunziata's position is especially disingenuous. She's opposing multiple LRT lines because of a design issue in her ward.
I disagree with John Parker on lots of things, but his perspective on transit is really nuanced and smart.
Crisanti's up again. "Voters rejected Transit City," he says. Says LRT is poor long-term planning, St. Clair chaos, etc, etc.
Crisanti wants improved bus service on Finch West, but not sure where he imagines the funding coming from.
Perruzza asks Crisanti if adding a few more buses to Finch West would be "cool" with him.
Perruzza also points out that Crisanti, as TTC Commissioner, voted to reduce bus service on Finch West as part of this year's cuts.
Vaughan's the last speaker. "This council is going to create a plan for the future of this city."
Adam Vaughan's speaking extension passes 33-1. Doug Ford wants him to stop talking.
Vote is minutes away. No sign of mayor yet.
Robinson sounds like she's hedging. Says she wanted Ford's referral to have more time, but wants to move forward with transit.
Augimeri has a video. This video will change everything!
Berardinetti is now the fourth speaker to be the last speaker. This will never end ever.
Berardinetti says there are massive developments coming to Eglinton in Scarborough. "Similar to what you'd see downtown."
Berardinetti has a copy of Novina Wong's letter. https://www.toronto.com/opinion/letters/article/1293240--scarborough-subway-an-investment-in-the-future-reader
Voting time! We're all watching for the mayor.
And there he is. Finally. Rob Ford is back in his chair.
First amendment, by Councillor Kelly: to not ask province to consider other projects (like DRL) in addition to LRTs. Fails 18-25.
Stintz's motion is up now. This is the big one that confirms LRT projects on Finch, Eglinton & SRT route. Passes 26-17.
Norm Kelly went "yes" on the Stintz amendment, which is surprising. Ah, he's saying he misvoted.
Was Jaye Robinson's vote also a mistake? There is chatter.
Re: Norm Kelly's misvote. Mammoliti says "See what happens? The one day I didn't put up my thumb."
The re-vote passes by an even WIDER margin. 27-16.
CHAOS.
Here's the re-vote breakdown. I see Thompson and… someone else? @ddale8 http://twitpic.com/8hezb1
Ah, Minnan-Wong and Thompson voted "yes" on the re-vote, making the final vote 27-16 in favour of LRT plan.
So, I guess, on the scorecard, @DenzilMW and Thompson will forever be shown as light rail proponents.
Now we can dramatically pull the mask off this transit plan and reveal that it was secretly Transit City all along.
Okay, now we're re-opening 3a again. Presumably to fix the Minnan-Wong and Thompson votes.
If councillors wanted to be really petty, they'd vote against re-opening.
There's a "yes" button *and* a "no" button. These newfangled machines are complicated.
Mammoliti is standing giving a double thumbs-down for the third revote on Stintz's amendment. Passes 25-18. That looks accurate.
And here it is, finally. The vote that brings light rail back to Toronto. http://twitpic.com/8hf3tt
Minnan-Wong decides to be a dick: wants to vote against excusing Gloria Lindsay Luby from being absent today.
13 councillors, including the mayor, vote against excusing Luby's absence. Nunziata accuses Luby of "ducking the vote."
Of Gloria Lindsay Luby, Doug Ford yells "she's dodging the people of Etobicoke!"
On re-vote, nine councillors vote not to excuse Gloria Lindsay Luby's absence today. http://twitpic.com/8hf68a
